How Do You Orient To The Divine?
(This is a huge topic, I realize… one that I couldn’t do justice to in a single post (or a single lifetime, perhaps), but that won’t stop me from beginning the conversation, at least.)
It seems to me that there are two primary ways that most people and most paths orient to the concept of God/Divine/Oneness/Spirit. It’s either inside of you, or outside of you.
The “outside of you” folks probably think of you and the Divine, the Divine being ‘out there’, and you trying to reach It. Your quest is to experience proximity to the Divine, and feel what it’s like to merge with the Divine, or, be in service to whatever It asks of you. (Because of the difference seen between man and Spirit, this is called, “dualism.”)
The “inside of you” folks probably think of the Divine in you, as ‘in here’, and you seeking to experience the fullness of It in you and through you. Your quest is to experience no absence of that Presence, to be filled 100% with the seamlessness of the experience of what is. (Because of the lack of difference seen between man and Spirit, this is called, “monism.”)
To the dualists, Divinity is something to be reached.
To the monists, Divinity is something to be realized.
(For more on these ideas, go here, here, here, or especially here.)
Now, I’m not putting one above the other; in my life, I’ve been both. But the reason I ask is that, from what I’m seeing, each one has profound (and profoundly different) implications on how you bring your sense of spirituality into your work.
Here are some questions to get you going…
What paradigm were you taught as a child? Have you stayed with that one, or left it? If you left it, have you come back to it? How have the paths you’ve studied oriented to the idea of God/Divine/Whatever? And what did you take from them around all this?
To be honest, drumming up conversation about this isn’t my primary aim… I’d much rather ask you to reflect, honestly and intensely, on not just what you think about this, but what you believe — what you practice with your words and actions (because sometimes, what you say you believe is different from what you actually do).
If you’d like to comment, I’d love to hear what happens for you once you’ve pondered, reflected, and chewed on this one for a while.
What I do want to impart is the idea that having clarity about which paradigm you truly follow can make a huge difference in everything you do, including your orientation to the idea of intuition, of fulfillment, of relationship, and obviously, personal growth and development, and the application of all of this in your livelihood.
Image by seedingchaos via Flickr.
And thanks to all who have commented on the previous post so far: Dawud Miracle, Shawn, Karin H., Alex, Joanna Young
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I definitely want to “chew on this” for awhile, Adam. It’s quite a topic, and I’m glad you’ve raised it.
What initially comes up for me is that even just offering an either/or, polarized, “inside” or “outside” choice can be limiting.
What are the implications on how to bring spirituality into work if a sense of connection with The Divine or with Oneness is both inside you and outside you?
Or, what if such a connection is even more expansive that those two alternatives?
I love this post, Adam. I’ve chewed on this off and on for awhile, and what I’ve seen for myself is: it depends.
Sometimes it’s incredibly helpful to connect with the Divine as ‘out there’ - a sense that there is a Reality that is larger than me, and that I can feel held and cared-for, and that I’m not alone- that has allowed for profound healing in my life.
At other times, the immanent nature of the DIvine within me, and realizing/manifesting/expressing That through my own being has been incredibly healing, a sense of power and ability and can-do-it-ness that goes beyond anything else.
I think for me, where I get stuck (for a moment, an hour, a day, or a decade, depending on the topic), is when I’m trying to access one, when my heart is really needing the other. Is that true for you as well?
Tshombe, I hear you; I’ve been chewing on this one for years, myself.
One of the implications that I’ve seen (and I’m sure there are others) involve a person’s quest for a sense of purpose, as in, “I want to find my life’s purpose.”
Many people I’ve worked with who subscribe to a dualistic philosophy seem to look outside of themselves if they feel a void in this area, as if the answer is “out there” somewhere. The monists, however, tend to have a sense of, “it’s within me, I just haven’t uncovered it yet.” Big difference.
(these are tendencies, of course, not blanket statements… and, it’s what I’ve seen)
A more expansive alternative, like you’re saying, I think, is where the key lies. And Mark, this gets on to what you’re saying, too.
If I see the Divine as being only in one place, and not the other, then I’m stopping short. My greatest sense of connection comes when I don’t experience/see a division between the “larger than me” and the “expression of It through my own being”… that while it lives within the deepest reaches of me, it doesn’t stop — it doesn’t ever stop — and the same presence that I connect to within is the same presence that exists within and throughout everything I experience.
So it’s within and without, inside and outside… reaching for deeper levels of realization (to come full circle with my own terminology).
It seems to me there’s still another way of looking at things…that Divinity is a figment of our imagination. In my early twenties I was profoundly influenced by Camus’ The Myth of Sisyphus, the basic idea being what do we do if we think the universe doesn’t give a darn about us? My conclusion was even if the universe doesn’t care doesn’t mean that I don’t.
I believe there’s not enough love and caring and happiness in the world, so my job is to do the best I can to add more, to push the world a bit in the direction I would like to see it go. It seems to me what I’ve lost in the way of comfort I’ve gained in commitment.
Bottom line: One doesn’t have to believe in the Divine to have a strong feeling of connection.
For another point of view how about Bertrand Russell’s introduction to his autobiography? Most people would probably find it depressing, but it’s also extremely life-affirming:
“What I Have Lived For
Three passions, simple but overwhelmingly strong, have governed my life: the longing for love, the search for knowledge, and unbearable pity for the suffering of mankind. These passions, like great winds, have blown me hither and thither, in a wayward course, over a great ocean of anguish, reaching to the very verge of despair.
I have sought love, first, because it brings ecstasy - ecstasy so great that I would often have sacrificed all the rest of life for a few hours of this joy. I have sought it, next, because it relieves loneliness–that terrible loneliness in which one shivering consciousness looks over the rim of the world into the cold unfathomable lifeless abyss. I have sought it finally, because in the union of love I have seen, in a mystic miniature, the prefiguring vision of the heaven that saints and poets have imagined. This is what I sought, and though it might seem too good for human life, this is what–at last–I have found.
With equal passion I have sought knowledge. I have wished to understand the hearts of men. I have wished to know why the stars shine. And I have tried to apprehend the Pythagorean power by which number holds sway above the flux. A little of this, but not much, I have achieved.
Love and knowledge, so far as they were possible, led upward toward the heavens. But always pity brought me back to earth. Echoes of cries of pain reverberate in my heart. Children in famine, victims tortured by oppressors, helpless old people a burden to their sons, and the whole world of loneliness, poverty, and pain make a mockery of what human life should be. I long to alleviate this evil, but I cannot, and I too suffer.
This has been my life. I have found it worth living, and would gladly live it again if the chance were offered me. “
For me, it is definitively both within and without. To me, it cannot be any other way. Everything in the Universe is made of the same thing - “starstuff” as Carl Sagan used to say. The Divine is within me, yet everything is interconnected, so the Divine is outside as well.
The path is to clear your vision to the point of being able to see the truths that are around us, to see through the illusions that permeate life.
And for the Purpose of Life? Only one purpose - we are here to serve others, however that manifests in your particular life. So, to bring it back to work, even the most boring, dead-end job can be rejuvinated with the shift in vision to, “How have I served someone today?” Sometimes, it is just a sincere smile as you pass in the hall. Positive energy.
I’m also in the “chewing on this for years” group. My sense/experience/intuition/belief is that there is no separation, but that using a perspective of separation can be helpful. Here’s what I mean. I believe that each and every one of us is a unique expression of the Divine Source that flows through everything. And, ultimately, we are all going to remember that sooner or later! But since the thought of being Divine (as in God-like) can be a bit overwhelming at first, I have found that creating a sense of separateness can be quite helpful. I took my cue from Neale Donald Walsch and began having coaching sessions with God. I actually had a blog going for a while with a few of my sessions. It’s at http://www.coachingwithgod.com. My point is that as we begin to remember and reconnect with our inherent Divine Nature, it may be helpful to imagine that God or the Divine is outside of ourselves. Doing so seems to relieve the pressure of trying to fill such seemingly (or so we’ve been taught) shoes.
These are great comments, I must say. I’ve been purposefully hanging back a bit, as not to flavor the conversation too much. That said…
Jean, I hear where you’re coming from, completely. I lived sans-Divine for most of my youth… but rather than get into it too much here, I’m going to write the next post about it.
Gayle, how interesting — I didn’t know Carl Sagain coined the term, “starstuff” — I’ve seen that term in other places, just didn’t know where it came from.
I agree with the service piece — the question then becomes, I believe, “who and how?”
And from what both you and Ed said, I started thinking of something I remember reading from a Sufi author once that said, “God is not everything, because God is beyond things… God is the eye of the existence of all things.”
I used to always get tripped up in the idea that “God is everything, and everything is God.” Somehow that never jibed with me, until seeing this definition, which put the Divine as the life/light underneath the creation of the things. And that made good sense to me, because it still left room for the experience of separation — not that it’s true, but that it’s often our experience.
Things are things, and always will be… but once you tap into the undercurrent, you’re with the Oneness. (As a teacher of mine likes to say, when it comes to talking with language about such matters, “Don’t mix your drinks. Unity is unity, and can’t be talked about with separation-language.”
Oh, and Ed, interesting point about the helpful piece — I can see how holding the idea of being “God-like” would be daunting!
I enjoyed your coachingwithgod site, by the way. Reminds me of some internal conversations I’ve had, myself.
At this point in my evolution, it’s easier for me to know when I’m not in touch with the Divine: that’s when I feel fear and anxiousness in my tummy.
I am s l o w l y beginning to notice when the fear is there and pausing then using meditation or the remembrance to get into a better space.
Some other telltale signs that I’m out of touch:
- Mental hamster wheel - keep fretting about the same problems over and over and over without any kind of resolution (like my left brain is caught in an infinite loop)
- Trying to “figure” something out, lengthy story telling with lots of qualifications (they said this but I don’t think they meant it but then again, they did say…)
One additional thought, so much of our culture is wrapped up in irony and negativity. Would we be boring if we were always in touch with the divine?
Thanks for the provocative question
Hi Judy, that’s some great self-awareness you’ve got there! I recognize all those patterns (not in me, but in folks I know… yeah, right
)
Would we be boring? Only if we are boring before. All the more enlightened people I know are still people with active personalities… their motivations are just coming from very different places than most. And most of them have a very good sense of humor… if you knew how reality really worked, wouldn’t you be laughing at a whole lot of things?
Thanks, Adam.
If you’re not enlightened, self-awareness is the next best thing.
Hi Adam, great topic and a biggie!
Wars have been fought over this stuff. It would be an interesting topic to discuss with fanatics, extremists, fundamentalists and the like (although, I suspect extremely unlikely!).
I think you’re speaking to many like minded and deep thinking subscribers, so I think you’ll attract lots of great responses.
Firstly, every one of us is a product of influence…like it or not. Now, if we don’t like where we are or were, we have the power to choose differently and to move forward.
Personally, I was Bible-bashed for the first 16 years of my life (Catholic education, you see) and I hated it, rebelled, and didn’t want anything to do with mainstream religions, especially Christianity.
Funnily enough that early influence is still there. I guess, it’s like family.
I find it funny how some people jump ship and have to convert to something. If you’re a Westener, chances are you’ve got a Christian background and if you’re an Eastener, you’re probaly Bhuddist, Hindu or Muslim. Be happy. I now realise that you don’t have to renownce everything and that the new is somehow better. It’s just different. Wisdom is gained through depth.
The wonderful thing is that we have so much available to us and so many avenues to explore to help us in our quest in connecting with the divine. No one way is right…there is only the right way for you which will reveal itself when you are open to it. It may not be one stream of religion, but then it may be. Doesn’t matter.
For me, it’s been a lifelong journey of exploration, covering everything from many forms of Christianity, to various Bhuddist teachings, Zen, Shinto, New Age (which is really old age),stuying various indigenous spiritual practices, the Celts, philosophers, theological topics, energy work, feng shui, healing and martial arts and metaphysical priciples. Phew! What a mouthful.
What have I learnt? Well…I don’t know much at all, it’s all good and that we’re more similar than different.
On the topic of in or out…I say both! God/Spirit is everywhere and within. That’s the beauty of being human. We get to live in two worlds!
As my old Sensei said…heaven is where you are now (or hell if you make it so!) and as an old church Minister once said to us when discussing the topic of religion…we need to focus on our similarities not our differences. That comment really stunned me at the time (coming from a mainstream religion representative) but it showed his depth and wisdom.
When it comes to things like occupation and religion, I don’t like to be categorised, so I tend to shun labels. I’m just me on my own journey just like we all are.
With regard to religious practice…well. Hmm. You’ve made me think! I don’t actually have or do anything in particular at the moment. Probably trying to maintain an attitude of gratitude and reflection is as close as it gets for now.
Anyway, better go Adam, otherwise I might start writing a book!
You know, brother, in Sufism there’s this term, fitrah. Fitrah is like our compass back to our Truth - back to our Creator. You can think of it as our primordial uncorrupted nature. It’s said we’re all created with our fitrah. And the role of spirituality is to awaken or unveil our fitrah so that we can clearly see the Way of Return.
How does fitrah become awakened? I think that question is so individualized that it’s impossible to answer.
Dawud. You could almost say that Fitrah and God or the Creator are one and the same. When our compass is fully awakened and working correctly, it always leads us into a deeper connection with the Divine so that every thought, every word and ever action we take is infused with Divine Creation. My guess, though, is that for most of us, our fitrah is on-again, off-again, and the awakening process is one of discovering what helps us keep it turned on more fully and consistently. I certainly know that’s true for me!
Hello - very interesting discussion. The “idea” of the divine is just that - an “idea.” as a matter of fact, everything we’ve talked about - including this post - is the same: all ideas/thoughts. i’m responding because i was struck by the quote from the sufi teacher who said something to the effect of god being the “eye” of it all. notice that the eye’s function is seeing. notice, too, that regardless of and beyond the particular ideas we all share with one another, they are all “seen.” who sees them? don’t be too quick to say “i do,” because who saw that thought? what is aware of this screen, this reading happening, the body you can observe if you look down right now? whether beautiful ideas or ugly ideas, thoughts of enlightenment or horror, all of these thoughts are “seen.” we are that seeing, and the seeing has never not been happening (is that a sentence?) - how is that any different from the Divine “eye?”there is no separation and never has been - there are only the ideas of separation arising within this very seeing right now. don’t take my word for it - check it out in your own experience and see if it isn’t true in this very moment.
Joe, thanks for the post — uh, comment.
I see what you’re saying about not making labels, and I agree. The intention for me isn’t to make labels that divide, but to make the foggy clear, in case someone had never had the chance to see the other side of the fence. It’s obviously a both/and, but if you’re only thinking that one side exists, it’s tricky to open to anything else.
Dawud, when I first heard of fitrah, I was thinking dualistically — so I thought, “God made this thing, this thing that has become me, and it’s over here and He is over there.”
Then, as my perspective shifted to be more monistic, I see it as “My fitrah is my primary nature (before all the conditioning of life got glommed onto it), and is intimately connected with my sirr (translated as “secret”, or “innermost being”), which is indivisible from the Divine.” No more here or there, just extensions of the same “starstuff.”
Interesting take on it, Ed… so much depends on the focus of our awareness, doesn’t it?
Vince, I knew I should have defined ‘eye’ a bit better… Where that comes from is the arabic word, ayn, which translates to “eye, source, or spring.” So, it’s actually ‘eye’ as in ‘eye of a hurricane’, not ‘the orb in one’s head.’
Not that that negates the point you’re making about perspective, thoughts, and ‘the watcher’ of it all… in fact, the point you make was one of the ones that led me away from orienting dualistically — because if there truly is no separation, then why was I clinging to a belief structure that made separation necessary?
(Thanks, everyone, for sharing — this is fun stuff…)
This has been a great topic!
I think everyone commenting here are all pretty close in their general spiritual beliefs. Very interesting. Like Joe, I’ve been all over the religion map, my path has led me to many different learnings (Judaism, Christianity [various forms], Buddhism [various forms], Yoga Sutras [not a religion, but suppports all of them], and now Sufi is calling me to see what it can teach, thanks to this blog).
I have found that if you can get past the man-made illusions, they all say the same thing. Do unto others, as you would like done unto you (or whatever version you prefer). Be kind, be gentle, live from the heart, be tolerant, love all.
“God” is an illusion. The costumes are man-made: white beard in Heaven, monk’s robes, earthly robes. Choose whichever helps you Understand.
Even from a scientific standpoint we are all the same… everything in the universe is made of atoms (and increasingly smaller particles). And atoms are made of energy. We are all connected, we are all made of energy. We are the same stuff as the holiest as well as the most evil. We must be tolerant of all, everything will come to balance eventually.
Personally, I don’t follow one religion. I haven’t found anything in particular that resonates with me so much that I want to limit myself, I seem to just be “spiritual”. What do you think, everyone? Do you stick to one particular doctrine?
@Edward…
Have you been studying Sufism? Kinda sounds like it!
The paradoxical question that’s so difficult for people to wrap their minds around is what this question of dualism vs monism. So often we try to describe the realities of one with the language and concepts of the other. But that’s the paradox…it’s impossible to do. Duality exists so that we can see boundaries and have personal experiences based on those boundaries (walls, bodies, ground, sky, etc…even emotions and thought).
But monism is just that. We can’t describe complete oneness with language meant to describe duality. It gets us stuck. Why? Because to have complete oneness, we can’t exist. So there’s no us to relate anything too.
Yet it is possible, through experience, to have understandings and awakenings about this complete oneness.
And you’re right, we move in and out of the depths of our beings between these worlds all the time. Those who become more attuned, find themselves able to access deeper and deeper levels of being more often. But that’s a huge story…
@Adam…
Yep, my understanding as well. This concept that God is outside some where - or above us in the sky - is a very interesting one. It really makes no sense. And it made no sense to me as a boy. I just couldn’t imagine a place beyond the clouds where ‘God’ lived.
It’s an interesting way to describe it to children. But it creates difficulty when we haven’t revised this idea when we enter adulthood. Hence, many of us are walking around with missed-beliefs around what God is because we haven’t learnt more than what we were taught as kids. Yet the explanation of God for a 30 year-old can be much different than that for a 3 year-old.
Interesting take, Dawud… I don’t necessarily equate monism with the state of living without the perception of separation; I think we can orient monistically and still use language that describes our state of being as ‘getting closer to living in unity.’
For example, just saying, “I feel the Oneness exists within and without” is a statement of belief in monism, yet from a perspective that still witnesses a difference. I’d be orienting monistically, but still journeying towards the full realization of that.
This deserves its own post, but… I keep seeing that it’s all too easy to beat ourselves up for ‘not being there yet’, when it’s the journey that we’re here for (at least, some would say).
Anyhow, I like the piece you mentioned about how our stories need revision as we grow — ain’t that the truth!
Hey brother.
I know what you mean. We can orient ourselves toward monism while we’re traveling along. I didn’t mean to imply we couldn’t. I was just making the point of how difficult it can be to speak about the realities of one with the language of the other.
And I definitely agree with you about not beating ourselves up along the journey. And it’s easy too. I mean, we’re supposed to be somewhere else, doing it better, right?
Poppycock (I love that word). We’re where we are and we could not be any more or less than that. And our lives are dynamic so we can change rapidly. I think that’s one of the important lessons I’ve taken from my own spiritual journey.
Dawud, total poppycock. (not what you said, but the other thing… I just couldn’t pass up a chance to say poppycock, too.)